SZD overnight trains to Berlin

[Swede]

I have, for some time now, been trying to get a complete Moscow-Berlin overnight train from the late SZD era, epoch IV. So far i have 6 cars, all of which are sleepers, including two UIC sleepers to Stockholm and Oslo respectively. I also have a TEP70 diesel on the way. But what other car types were in the train, and how long were the trains normally?

I can imagine there was atleast a restaurant car of some sort in the train. But what about baggage cars? Regular coaches?

Are any of these cars available in H0 scale? I know of the Heris sets, and even though i already have the 17050-2 set, i have been advised not to buy any more of them. That does bring me to a little side question, actually: the destination signs. Did all cars have to carry them? That was the main reason why i purchased the Heris set.

[ivan]

Dear Swede I can't tell you about cars in such train. I thing, some professionals will tell you. But about loco I can. On the territory of Soviet Union used in the end of 80-s:
1. From Moscow- Belorusskaya to Vyazma - DC Shkoda ChS7 (ЧС7 viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3157) or ChS2 (ЧС2 viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1790).
2. From Vyazma to Brest (border of USSR) - AC Skoda ChS4t (ЧС4т viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2202).
So, that's why TEP70 not suitable for this train.
With kind regards,
Ivan

[AlexK]

Переведу на всякий случай.

Хотелось бы собрать ночной поезд Москва-Берлин, СЖД, конец 4-й эпохи. У меня уже есть шесть вагонов, включая два РИЦа Москва-Стокгольм и Москва-Осло соответственно. Еще я ожидаю ТЭП70. Но какие еще типы вагонов использовались в этом поезде? Какова была его составность?

Я подозреваю, что как минимум ресторан какого-то типа там должен был быть. А были ли багажные вагоны? Обычные (сидячие или плацкартные) вагоны?

Какие из этих вагонов доступны в НО? Я знаю про наборы Херис, и у меня даже есть 17050-2, но остальные мне покупать отсоветовали. Отсюда вытекает еще один вопрос: были ли маршрутные таблички на всех вагонах? Ведь именно маршрутные даблички сподвигли меня на покупку херисовского набора.

To Swede

Hej! it's just a translation of your post for those of us who don't speak English.

Unfortunately I can't tell something about this train. I've take it only once in 1988, from Minsk to Moscow.

[Swede]

Dear Swede I can't tell you about cars in such train. I thing, some professionals will tell you. But about loco I can. On the territory of Soviet Union used in the end of 80-s:
1. From Moscow- Belorusskaya to Vyazma - DC Shkoda ChS7 (ЧС7 viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3157) or ChS2 (ЧС2 viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1790).
2. From Vyazma to Brest (border of USSR) - AC Skoda ChS4t (ЧС4т viewtopic.php?f=44&t=2202).
So, that's why TEP70 not suitable for this train.
With kind regards,
Ivan

I had to take a look at Youtube, and it seems that my memory tricked me. I thought the trains of Belarusian cars behind TEP70's i viewed ran from Moscow to Minsk, but it turned out they were from St Petersburg.

But are any of the ones actually used available in H0 scale in ready-to-run form? I've only seen two of them, the ChS2 and ChS4t, as kits.

Otherwise, my train could be a re-routed one.

To Swede

Hej! it's just a translation of your post for those of us who don't speak English.

Unfortunately I can't tell something about this train. I've take it only once in 1988, from Minsk to Moscow.

Thank you. When i first joined the forum i posted in Russian, translated with Google Translate, and was asked to post in English instead.

[Wowan]

I can imagine there was atleast a restaurant car of some sort in the train. But what about baggage cars? Regular coaches?

It's a tricky question.
Easy answer is that you need only 'coupé' coaches (Ammendorf/Görlitz Type 47). The "Moscow Express" (13/290 & 291/14) has always been the main train between Moscow and Berlin. For instance, summer 1991:


But there where different optional cars depending on year, date and so on. Let's look at the 1987 timetable.

• "K" is coupe — regular, daily connection Moscow — Brest and Moscow — Berlin. "KP" is coupe car with radio facilities (staff wagon, looks very similar to "K", but with antenna).
  "BP" is restaurant — regular, daily connection between Moscow and Brest. There also was DR-restaurant (same 'soviet' type) between Berlin and Brest.
  "П" is post wagon — seasonal, twice a week from September to April (looks like this of that).
  
  "P1"/"P1-2" is RIC sleeping cars (1st and 1/2 classes);
  • Moscow — Berlin — seasonal, once a week in summer;
    Moscow — Bern — 3 times a week in summer, 2 times a week in winter, runs only in western direction (Moscow to Berlin), backwards with 241/16 "Ost-West Express" Paris — Moscow;
    Moscow — Malmö — seasonal, once a week in winter, runs only in western direction (Moscow to Berlin), backwards with 241/16 "Ost-West Express" Paris — Moscow;
    Moscow — Oslo — seasonal, once a week in summer;
    Moscow — Stockholm — seasonal, once a week in summer.

And here is 1983 timetable. Almost all train goes to Berlin, there were seasonal 'coupes' from Minsk and Kiev and daily RIC sleepers from Moscow.

[Swede]

What i can see straight away is that this train would be quite long, haha. Good thing one club member has a 6m long (fictional Russian) station. One thing i could do to limit the train length a bit is to remove all the cars not going all the way, but that still leaves about 12-16 cars depending on what timetable i go after.

"BP" is restaurant — regular, daily connection between Moscow and Brest. There also was DR-restaurant (same 'soviet' type) between Berlin and Brest.

Interesting, i had no idea DR had restaurant cars of that design. I thought even the red ones were SZD.

[ivan]

I had to take a look at Youtube, and it seems that my memory tricked me. I thought the trains of Belarusian cars behind TEP70's i viewed ran from Moscow to Minsk, but it turned out they were from St Petersburg.

But are any of the ones actually used available in H0 scale in ready-to-run form? I've only seen two of them, the ChS2 and ChS4t, as kits.

Otherwise, my train could be a re-routed one.

Unfortunately there are no any factory-made ready-to-run models of ChS2, ChS4t and ChS7. ACME wanted to make ChS7 some time ago, but crisis happened and now there no any news about this project. Just some of us makes its from time to time by some private orders. I made about 10 ChS7 and only one ChS4t. Now this ChS4t is running somewhere in Finland.
Of cause in our homes on layouts trains could be re-rerouted, and with TEP70 it will look very cool.

[Swede]

Unfortunately there are no any factory-made ready-to-run models of ChS2, ChS4t and ChS7. ACME wanted to make ChS7 some time ago, but crisis happened and now there no any news about this project.

Now that you mention it, i do recall seeing the ACME ChS7, and it is infact in their 2017 catalogue on page 49.
https://issuu.com/harlaar/docs/acme_-_katalog_2017

Just some of us makes its from time to time by some private orders. I made about 10 ChS7 and only one ChS4t. Now this ChS4t is running somewhere in Finland.

Cool.

Of cause in our homes on layouts trains could be re-rerouted, and with TEP70 it will look very cool.

That is true. Only imagination can set the limits.

[Р.М.]

Ресторан по Бресту отцепляли (если поезд следовал из Москвы).

[A.C.]

Hi,
the history of trains "Moscow-Berlin" is described in detail in the book "Internationale Schnellzuge in der DDR" of Rico Bogula. I think it's a really great book. If you read German, you can find all what you need.
Best regards.

PS: I can't seem to attach photo of the book here in the forum. Maybe later?